Hi L0ner I think you understood what I was implying. As Calvin observed I really don't understand enough about how the Arch system works (but I am studying, experimenting and trying to learn) to suggest what you can and can not do with it. Nor do I know what you need to store on the Trinity server, nor how you create the binaries for the other distros. But sometimes people who don't understand a process can come up with possible uses that more knowledgeable people would not think of--because they are so far out in left field. My original suggestion was not to "use" the Arch pacman system or software, but to take the "concept" of a PKGBUILD script and use that concept to possibly reduce the amount of effort required to create a distro's binary or to reduce the amount of "stored" files on the Trinity server required to support the various distros. Since creating binaries for the different distros is something that I imagine is time consuming, building a system to automate this--per distro--might speed up the process. If so, it could make it easier to provide beta binaries for the average user to test, and not require your more experienced programmers to create them. This would permit a lot more average users to tests the packages and would give you more feedback. Right now you have very little that non programmers can do to help you develop Trinity. Anything that could be set up that would permit non programmers to do things that would reduce the work load on your experienced programmers could make a big difference in your productivity. I am not a programmer, but in my past careers of Sysadmin and Webmaster I have been around them a lot and had to build a lot of software from source. I am impressed with the efficiency of the Arch packaging system and using it is very simple even for newbies. But... as is common with most OSS programming projects that create large complex software packages, they do not describe the "structure" and "interrelationships" of their overall system. Instead they give a lot of detailed step by step instructions for various parts of the system. For simply installing a package from their repository this works fine. But if you want to do things like create local repositories or create your own PKGBUILDs--not understanding the "Big Picture" makes it very confusing for a non programmer. Using something like a flow chart or even a "mind map" to show the relationships of the various processes and programs involved could help immensely and prevent a lot of confusion for new users. Keith On Wed, Dec 21, 2011 at 10:11 AM, Calvin Morrison <mutantturkey@...> wrote: > > > On 21 December 2011 06:41, L0ner sh4dou <sh4dou@...> wrote: >> >> 2011/12/21 Keith Daniels <keithwdaniels@...>: >> > On Tue, Dec 20, 2011 at 6:14 PM, Calvin Morrison >> > <mutantturkey@...> wrote: >> >> >> >> >> >> On 20 December 2011 18:08, Timothy Pearson >> >> <kb9vqf@...> >> >> wrote: >> >>> >> >>> > On 20 December 2011 16:58, Timothy Pearson >> >>> > <kb9vqf@...>wrote: >> >>> > >> >>> >> > FYI the TDE mirror system is down due to permanent uidaho mirror >> >>> >> server >> >>> >> > failure and secondary mirror server misconfiguration. >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > Details here: http://trinity-announce.pearsoncomputing.net/?0::16 >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > I am working to resolve this issue, however given the limited >> >>> >> > upload >> >>> >> > bandwidth of the TDE servers and lack of donations it may be >> >>> >> > several >> >>> >> weeks >> >>> >> > before service is 100% restored. >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > Note that all non-mirrored TDE services, such as the website, >> >>> >> > mailing >> >>> >> > lists, GIT, Wiki, and bugtracker will all continue to function >> >>> >> normally. >> >>> >> > This failure affects mirrored source tarballs and binary packages >> >>> >> ONLY. >> >>> >> > >> >>> >> > Tim >> >>> >> >> >>> >> To make matters worse the secondary mirror at mirror.tokra.lv was >> >>> >> taken >> >>> >> offline some time ago without my knowledge. The maintainer of that >> >>> >> mirror >> >>> >> silently redirected all access to uidaho, so my automated checks >> >>> >> did >> >>> >> not >> >>> >> detect a problem until today. That mirror maintainer does not want >> >>> >> to >> >>> >> reactivate his mirror, so the TDE binary/source archive mirror >> >>> >> system >> >>> >> will >> >>> >> stay down until new mirrors can be brought up from scratch. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> I am looking into a number of the suggestions given in this thread. >> >>> >> I >> >>> >> also have received mirror offers from several individuals, which >> >>> >> are >> >>> >> greatly appreciated! At this point it looks like any delay will be >> >>> >> due >> >>> >> to >> >>> >> the limited TDE project bandwidth combined with the sheer size of >> >>> >> the >> >>> >> TDE >> >>> >> source/binary archive. >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Further updates will be forthcoming as events warrant. Thank you >> >>> >> all >> >>> >> for >> >>> >> your patience! >> >>> >> >> >>> >> Tim >> >>> >> >> >>> > >> >>> > >> >>> > Even more reason to switch to xz packages :) >> >>> > >> >>> >> >>> Not trivial I'm afraid. The majority of the mirror archive is >> >>> consumed in >> >>> binary packages, which must be compressed according to each >> >>> distribution's >> >>> policies. >> >>> >> >>> Tim >> >> >> >> >> >> Of course but after Arch Linux switched to xz I was mightily impressed. >> >> I >> >> wonder what policies exist. >> > >> > I'm still trying to understand Arch's packaging system so I might have >> > misinterpreted your comment. >> > >> > Are you thinking that you could make different PKGBUILD files for the >> > different distros and use the same source code for all distros. >> > >> > Since PKGBUILDs are scripts you should even be able to add scripts >> > that alter the source code as needed for specific distros prior to >> > building. >> > >> > Keith >> > >> As far as I understood, the .xz packets are just compressed binaries >> created by make. > > > they are created by makepkg, using pkgbuilds. they are a compressed tar file > of what will be installed. It's like a mini file system within the folder > with all files that need to go into the real file system. xz, gzip, bzip the > principal is the same. > >> >> In order to create PKGBUILDs for other distros we would need to >> provide a method for building them and installing. >> Building: something that interpretes PKGBUILD and use their inside >> function and variables to do buiding. >> Installing something that extracts them into root. >> >> We could do some research on this. >> > > nope, pkgbuilds are strictly glued with pacman, the Arch linux package > manager. Other distros have their own spec files that are similar to > PKGBUILDs however. >