Message: previous - next
Month: February 2012

Re: [trinity-devel] Poll

From: Darrell Anderson <humanreadable@...>
Date: Sat, 11 Feb 2012 19:57:44 -0800 (PST)
> A hypothetical poll for users
> here....
> If TDE were to close down, which desktop would you use
> instead?  You would
> be allowed to abandon Linux entirely in this scenario. ;-)
> Please state why you have not already switched; i.e. what
> item are missing
> or suboptimal in the other environment.
> I am curious as to why TDE still exists and need some
> concrete examples to
> fall back on to counter detractors.
> Thanks!

I have spent considerable time thinking about that question ever since the official announcement that KDE3 no longer would be actively supported by the KDE developers.

I would use the last available release of Trinity or KDE 3.5.10 --- for as long as I could. If Trinity disappeared today I could squeeze a couple of more years out of either before running into insurmountable compiling issues.

I never have been a GTK fan. The standard file picker dialog is clunky. Much of the GTK design seems to revolve around the NIH (Not Invented Here) syndrome. Every year I try Xfce, LXDE, Fluxbox, IceWM, etc. and immediately yearn for KDE3. I do not like any of the file managers offered in the GTK world, which is where my yearning begins. Konqueror 3.5 is one of the all-time great file managers.

Initially I decided I'd bide my time until KDE4 became fully usable. As I mentioned some days ago, I did not blame the initial KDE 4.0 reaction as the fault of the developers but the distro maintainers. Until the day when I determined KDE4 had matured for my usage --- and I would determine that day, not self-appointed nannies --- I decided to learn to rebuild 3.5.10 to fill the void.

Somewhere along the way Trinity appeared and I saw hope.

As a free/libre software advocate I want KDE4 to succeed. I want GNOME and 'buntu to succeed. That does not mean those environments satisfy my needs for desktop computer usage.

I gave 4.2.4 a serious shot when I built my home theater PC. A horrible experience. I installed 3.5.10 and used the various kiosk features to build a great little appliance.

A year ago I gave KDE 4.5.5 a serious opportunity. The more I used KDE4 the more exhausted I became. A desktop should never get in a user's way.

As a desktop I could acclimate to KDE4 without fanfare. My challenge is ever since the KDE4 developers announced that Akonadi would be deeply entrenched into the PIM apps, I am faced with running the KDE4 PIM apps with that overhead or face finding GTK apps to replace what I use. Not to mention that KMail has been broken through 7 point releases. I'm waiting for glowing reviews about KMail from 4.8 users.

I use KMail, Akregator, and KAlarm. I don't need a database caching that data all day. I'm not an information or data junkie.

I don't care what spin doctors say about managing personal information. A significant number of users who do not need enterprise support get along fine with each PIM app handling its own data. I understand why the KDE4 developers chose their path. The PIM data management ties into their idea of semantic desktops and sharing data among users and apps. I do not have that kind of information flow in my life that requires the backend overhead KDE4 now requires, but I can't disable the overhead.

I don't like Dolphin.

I don't like the look and feel of KDE4. Perhaps Qt4 is the actual culprit, I don't know.

Amarok 2 is awful compared to the simplicity of Amarok 1.4. Yeah, I know, there is Clementine, but I like 1.4.

Although there is a method to the new way of doing things in KDE4, configuring a KDE4 desktop takes more effort. Using apps requires more mouse clicks or keyboard strokes.

The more that KDE4 evolves the more that various external apps will be built with dependencies on Akonadi, Nepomuk, and Strigi. There is no Plan B with KDE4.

I'm sure those who use KDE4 love what they have. I want them to be happy with their choice. That is how free/libre software should be. Likewise, for me, I like the way KDE3/Trinity works and not the way KDE4 works. I should be able to enjoy my choice and be left alone and not be hen-pecked by self-appointed nannies.

I have the hardware to run the overhead of KDE4 PIM apps. If today my only choice was a GTK desktop or KDE4 I would choose KDE4. To me KDE4 is more palatable than anything in GTK. I don't like certain design decisions made with KDE4 but I would learn to live with the bloated design. I would rebuild packages if that avenue allowed me to reduce some cruft.

Today those two environments are not the sole options. Therefore I would keep my eye on Razor-Qt, maybe even join their effort. I don't think think they offer PIM apps, but perhaps someday somebody will strip the Akonadi crap from KDE4 PIM apps and port to Razor-Qt.

To my perspective, that Razor-Qt exists is an indicator that users are unhappy with the direction of KDE4.

Fortunately I need not decide today. For now I continue rebuilding KDE 3.5.10 and Trinity. I'll squeeze as many years as possible from those sources. As I am teaching myself C++, possibly one day I might even learn enough to keep Trinity as my desktop for a long time.

I'd be dismayed if the day came soon that Trinity disappeared. GNOME and KDE4 do not help me feel warm and fuzzy. I'm too deep in the 'nix way of using computers. Therefore Windows is not a palatable option. Outside of work contracts I don't use Windows. I detest the philosophy of the Apple people and their walled gardens. The philosophy of free/libre software fits me wonderfully. That does not mean the current trend in free/libre desktops fits me wonderfully. Trinity is my hope for the future.

The KDE4 developers do what they want. The GNOME developers do what they want. The 'buntu people do what they want. And to a certain degree, rightfully so. And rightfully so I wish others would leave us alone to do what we want. We don't bother anybody. Why do they believe they have standing to bother and attack us?

Mostly I don't like the attitude of KDE4 and GNOME developers. At one time the BSD developers were blatant about who they wrote the software for --- themselves. There was no pretense. I could endure the GNOME and KDE4 developers (but not their software) if they would be as honest and admit they develop the software for themselves and not others.

I prefer the attitude and philosophy of those participating in Trinity. In the discussions held here in this list there is a genuine concern for users. Even I have solicited ideas and then retracted because of the needs of the wider user base.

I invest a lot of my time to make Trinity succeed. I need to because the alternatives leave me sour. I wish we had one or two additional crack C++ coders on board to expedite development and bug fixing. I wish I could crank C++ code a tenth as good as you.

I don't own any crystal balls and can't predict the future of Trinity. For my style of usage, I hope Trinity hangs around for several more years. If not then I'll hang on as long as possible and hope Razor-Qt becomes popular with traditional apps and no KDE4 overhead. Yet as long as Trinity is active I'll do my part to help.

With that all said, I ask and hope that everybody involved here ignores the KDE4 people every time they interrupt our discussions. Just ignore them. No response at all no matter how tempting. Let them say and think what they want while we mind our own business and devote our energies to Trinity. :)