> I mean if we started using kwin, we would definitely have
> influence upon it because we would be the users. Reporting
> bugs requesting features. I am not sure what else you mean
> by "influence". KWin4 does everything TWin does.

One of the points of contention with this and other related topics is how much influence do KDE4 users have? Please notice I did not write users have no influence. Nor did I write developers don't listen or respond to users. I only asked rhetorically how much influence.

Consider that nepomuk/akonadi/strigi remain non negotiables, despite users requesting this from Day One. The argument that these services can be disabled is not the same as not installing them in the first place. When other apps depend upon the libraries of those three packages then disabling the services accomplishes little. The overhead remains. The dependencies remain.

Many non enterprise users have no need or interest in social networking, regardless of the potential merits. The entire nepomuk/akonadi/strigi philosophy never has been optional within KDE4. Few people have argued that those features be ripped from KDE4. They argued that they should be optional. Truly optional. People who run a half dozen KAlarm events and check email twice a day don't need or want a caching engine running in the background. They don't care about sharing desktops or activities with other people. They don't care or need massive meta data indexing.

Yet building KDE4 without those three modules is not possible. Much like using Windows without IE is impossible. Where is the true choice and influence (other than using a different desktop environment)?

If I could use KDE PIM apps without akonadi then likely I would be using KDE4 part time. Not to mention that I still read reports that KMail remains broken to one degree or another --- four years later.

How much influence would Trinity users have with kwin4 development? I don't know. I have read too many KDE bug reports that were closed as Won't Fix.

Those are some of my thoughts about influence.

A significant point about this kwin4 discussion is if kwin4 integration is doable then let the hacking begin. Put up or shut up (not you Calvin but anybody who wants this integration should put up or shut up, including those proposing the idea). We Trinity folks don't go pimping in the KDE4 forums. If we tried that we would be banned in less than 24 hours. Why do certain individuals think that pimping KDE4 products here in the Trinity lists is any more acceptable?

Certain people need to stop acting like a telemarketer. Annoying. Leave us alone. The proposal has been made. The door to integration is open. Let the hacking begin.

> Let's keep it friendly and to the point.

Indeed. Be friendly. Be open. Stay focused. Block email addresses.

Darrell