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Month: April 2012

Re: [trinity-devel] Re: Resolving the TWin/KWin Fork Issue

From: Martin Gräßlin <mgraesslin@...>
Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2012 11:47:25 +0200
On Friday 27 April 2012 12:30:10 Andy wrote:
> Martin Gr��lin wrote:
> > On Saturday 21 April 2012 09:57:36 Fran�ois ANDRIOT wrote:
> >> All distro do not have the bleeding edge QT4 or KDE4 version. For
> >> example, RHEL use QT 4.6 and KDE 4.3 .
> >> In that case, is TDE supposed to provide QT 4.7 (or newer) and the
> >> latest kdelibs just to provide the latest kwin ? I don't think so.
> > 
> > I highly recommend to not use KWin 4.3 anymore. And RHEL or SLES are very
> > bad examples. Users of those want the old versions and do neither want to
> > install a recent version of KDE software nor of TDE software. They use
> > the old system because of the provided security by RedHat or SUSE.
> > Installing anything third party invalidates the reason to use RHEL/SLES
> > in the first place.
> Martin, this is wrong and IMHO very arrongant from you
Please appologise for calling me arrogant!
> (and from what I have
> seen it's typical of the attitude of some KDE4 devs). There are many people
> (including myself) using RHEL6 (or rather one of it's clones Centos6 and
> SL6) on the desktop because it provides a >>STABLE BASE SYSTEM<<.
> Most desktop users of EL6 clones will then make use of third party repos (as
> you might know there are several very large ones) in order to add desktop
> applications (not old versions!) and other enhachements including
> alternative DEs.
You cannot use a modern DE with an outdated stack, that's just not supported. 
How do you get:
* consolekit
* sytstemd
* Mesa 8
* recent X versions
* Wayland (yes that's right now included in quite some distributions)
* make your DE work with HAL again?

Linux is a system were everything is rolling-release and depends on each 
other. You cannot just take one component and use it with components of a 
different age. Especially Trinity should now that (HAL anyone?).

You cannot use a modern KWin with something like RHEL 6 as it does not meet 
minimum requirements we have (and that's not only Qt). But KWin 4.3 in RHEL 
does not meet the requirements for using KWin in Trinity.
> RHEL6/clones are actually a perfect match for TDE users as both the base
> system and the desktop can be considered conservative (not in the political
> sense) and stable.
TDE is anything but stable - sorry, just look at the mailinglist and count 
your "does not compile", "crashes" and other things.
> If a switch to KWin4 would mean that new releases of TDE no longer work on
> RHEL6 and clones then I think this is a very bad move.
You don't have to provide it for outdated software. Concentrate on the future 
> Also I fear that if TDE adopts KWin4 it will not have any influence on the
> direction of KWin4, basically it will be a 'take it or leave it' adoption.
> The IMHO quite condescending attitude that Martin has displayed in this
> thread makes that very likely.
KWin has like any other KDE project a meritocratic development approach. The 
best way to get influence is by getting involved in development. The 
requirments to get features inside KWin are outlined in

Of course you cannot tell us what we have to work on - nobody can do that. Any 
feature request is evaluated based on the Mission Statement and only if it is 
considered as extremely important chances are that it gets implemented.

So if you have thinks you want to get into KWin you need to write the code - 
just like with TWin. If the code gets not accepted there are very good reasons 
for it (mostly quality).