Thomas Maus composed on 2016-03-04 02:17 (UTC+0100):

> I agree, necessity should drive this discussion.
> And I hold, the gear is broken and doing damage to TDE:
> 
> KDE3.5.10+ was widely perceived as a pinnacle of 
> * ergonomics (in terms of user-configurable usability, i.e. the desktop 
> adapting to the needs of the user, not vice versa)
> * stability and robustness
> * provided richness and tight integration of functionality between various 
> applications

> To indicate the continuation of this valuable tradition, the "gear" was a 
> natural and probably even wise choice.

> With KDE repeating the catastrophic transition and fracas (3->4) once again 
> with 4->5 (and in 30+ years of X11 experience I have rarely used something 
> less stable and ergonomic than Plasma5!) the luster of the gear is massively 
> fading.

I'm only mildly surprised it hasn't been replaced, only mildly because the
project has so many things well overdue for fixing. The project has morphed
away from what made it great. The gear is iconic for what it was at its best.
Now it's not KDE, but a collection:

1-Workspace, aka Plasma

2-Frameworks, whatever that means

3-Applications, supposedly standalone, not dependent on Plasma or Frameworks

In user forums, users are constantly being chastised for writing KDE rather
than being specific about which of the three was the subject of discussion,
as if ordinary users could even become aware of how to distinguish where the
fault underlying their problem might lie.

> Do we really want to be associated with KDE's recent and future plunders in 
> the areas of ergonomics, stability and functionality, when the mission of this 
> project is to keep and improve what was achieve and then discarded by KDE?

What KDE is now lacks leadership and direction. It's a programmer's
playground. There's no pressure from anywhere to fix what's broke.

> If you take a look around, e.g. in Wikipedia and some linux forums, you'll 
> find, that TDE is mostly perceived as a stale branch, an appendix of KDE.

Stale is a synonym for other words with more positive meaning, so not
necessarily a bad thing. And TDE did start as a fork, of a great product. I
would not like to see awareness of that lost, like the heritage that long ago
made the USA great, but has all but disappeared over recent decades.

> IMHO, the "gear" obstructs the view to the real and imperishable values of 
> TDE, the trinity mentioned above.

I think it's clear enough from the language used on the Trinity Project
website that the aim is reliable functionality without bling and naivette
getting in the way. A gear is something that once installed just works.
Nothing fancy, complicated or requiring constant attention. I can't see how
it can obstruct anything.

> It prevents new (young) people from trying TDE, because -- why should they try 
> an "old KDE" if the red-hot KDE sucks?

Probably some. Probably others realize something went wrong and are
interested in restoring the proven backup.

> To let TDE's values shine, and to attract a wider user base, user support and 
> eventually more distro support (which in turn widens the user base) we need 
> some change in terms of icon, wording, promoting the values and edge of TDE.

ISTR Tim mentioning he doesn't see an indisciminately wider user base as in
TDE's best interest. Word of mouth can attract a better crowd than marketing
to get a bigger crowd. Some changes may be in order, but the existing cool
(vs. warm; calming, soothing; not as often spelled "kewl") product look and
feel I see as an advantage in itself.

What needs fixing:

1-Konq: keep functionality that made it special, but updat for a complete web
experience equivalent to competition built on WebKit, Blink and Gecko, and
without any need to flip between two different engines as in Konq 4. Keeping
the ability to render physical CSS sizes (pt, mm, cm, in, etc.) as physical
rather than logically equated to arbitrary pixel sizes is essential. The CSS
spec regressed horribly in completely disposing of nominally physical sizes
as real physical sizes. Gecko retains a proprietary hidden option, mozmm, to
permit physical sizing, but only KHTML permits legacy content to be rendered
as originally designed, or new content not be specially built with
proprietary styles in order to render with genuinely physical dimensions.

2-starttde needs to be in $PATH regardless of underlying OS without any more
fussing required by sysadmin beyond installing TDE in the first place. One
shouldn't need to type WINDOWMANAGER=/opt/Trinity/bin/starttde before startx
to start a TDE session without a login manager.

3-KDE3 menu style ought to be default, more tree branches, fewer apps to hunt
through in each main or first sub menu branch selection.
-- 
"The wise are known for their understanding, and pleasant
words are persuasive." Proverbs 16:21 (New Living Translation)

 Team OS/2 ** Reg. Linux User #211409 ** a11y rocks!

Felix Miata  ***  http://fm.no-ip.com/